“In 2006, there was an earthquake in Rajpipla”
This is how Prince Manvendra Singh Gohil, son of the present Maharaja of Rajpipla, describes the reaction to his coming out in 2006. The revelation was indeed a shocking one to the traditional mores of Rajpipla and was met with anger by many and even effigies of the prince. But his journey has been one centered on truth (as he has expressed himself) and his work for the advancement of LGBTQ+ rights in India has only expanded since then. Manvendra’s activism goes back to the 90s, a time when HIV/AIDS was a major issue; he was involved in helping gay men in Gujarat and spreading awareness on safe sex. Much of this work has continued through Manvendra’s foundation of the Lakshya Trust, a community-based organisation dedicated to HIV/AIDS education and prevention. The trust provides counselling services, clinics for treatment of sexually transmitted infections, and resource centres. The trust also creates employment opportunities for gay men and support for other organisations for MSMs, and plans to open a hospice/old age home for gay men.
In 2007, Manvendra joined the Interim Governing Board of the Asia Pacific Coalition on Male Sexual Health, known as APCOM, a regional coalition of MSM and HIV community-based organisations, the government sector, donors, technical experts and the UN system (LT).
We look forward to finding out more about the work and evolution of the hugely important initiatives undertaken by the Trust in this interview, what avenues have opened up for the education on LGBTQ+ issues in the Digital Age, and what lies ahead in the fight for LGBTQ+ rights. Though Manvendra’s powerful story, there is much to be learned about the major shifts in our culture, law, and politics from that fateful earthquake in 2006.
Kunal: You’ve spoken at several venues about the events of your life and how they have led to your work today. A compelling narrative like yours obviously has a great impact on changing people’s minds about LGBTQ+ issues. What do you think about the power of storytelling in reaching people with respect to the work you have done on LGBTQ+ rights?
Manvendra Singh Gohil (MSG): What happens is when you tell your own story, your personal experiences, then the audience can relate more, because it has happened. These experiences are not just fictional, they are facts, they have happened in one’s life—the struggles, the emotions, the challenges, the hurdles an individual faces just for being truthful to oneself is so difficult. I have observed that whenever I have told my story or have shared someone else’s story [or they have] to an audience, that definitely impacts the minds of people and they try to understand what an individual needs to undergo. So, definitely—a story will impact the minds of an audience.
Kunal: Do you think greater representations of LGBTQ+ figures in the public sphere can help move towards a greater normalisation/acceptance of the LGBTQ+ community in society? Can positive fictional portrayals (like in cinema) play an important role?
MSG: People get influenced by those who are their role models, who are known figures in society—these people carry a lot of weightage in changing the mindset of society. Celebrities, especially Bollywood celebs, social figures, Page 3 figures as we call them—you know those [whose opinions] carry a lot of weight—if they come out and talk about their own stories to the public then it will also have an impact—even if they are not LGBTQ+, if they are allies, if they are supporting the community. If those celebrities make statements in the media that are in favour of us, then also there is going to be a positive impact and positive change. Bollywood definitely, as we have seen, has a huge impact on the audience because a lot of us are Bollywood fans, Bollywood lovers, because each of is a part of some fan following, some idol worship or some Bollywood celebrity. Indian cinema has been popular not just in India but all over the world. So, if some famous Bollywood personality makes the statement or even makes a film that is positive and gives that different depiction of a gay character. I have seen in the past that Bollywood has made fun of us. I have seen older films where we have been treated like jokers or comedians and ridiculed—that typical effeminate behavior has been shown on screen and that creates a lot of misunderstanding when the audience sees that. But we are humans, we are like any other human being so showing effeminate behavior is going to confuse the audience. You have to break those stereotypes and show us as human beings, show us as any other person who is enjoying their life, as speaking their truth and being oneself. If that depiction is shown—and there have been films where this has happened like in earlier films such as My Brother Nikhil, which was made by Onir. Recently, there has been a beautiful film made by my friend Sridhar Rangayan called Evening Shadows, which shows the life of a gay person. I have shown these films to colleges, universities, wherever I have gone to give lectures and I have seen the change in the behaviour of the audience. I’ll give you a small example: Recently, I showed Evening Shadows in a Law university in Gandhinagar in Gujarat and there was one professor who was sitting in the audience and he raised his hand when the show was over and said, “ I would like to make a statement: after watching this film, my eyes have been opened to the struggle the LGBTQ+ community faces and tomorrow, when my child grows up and tells me ‘dad, I am gay’, I would be a better father to understand that child’s dilemma and the child’s confusion”. So you see, even if for one person in the audience, a difference is made, then our work is done. That’s how we are able to make change happen in society.
Kunal: The point you have made is absolutely correct and I’ll share a personal anecdote. I saw Aligarh with my family and we had a very interesting conversation following the movie on the struggles, the discourse around the LGBTQ+ community. Cinema acts as such a powerful medium to reach out to people and tell real stories. So rather than making the entire community a caricature it would be better if real stories are told because these are real rights. As you just mentioned, these are not just caricatures out there, or clowns—these are real people with real stories to share. Moving on, last year was the 25th anniversary of the Humsafar Trust and this year marks the 30th anniversary of Bombay Dost magazine (India’s first registered magazine catering to the LGBTQ+ community). Reflecting on these important milestones, can you talk about your early experience with the magazine and how that has shaped your work today at the Lakshya Trust?
MSG: Both Bombay Dost and Humsafar Trust have played a very important part in the development of my sexual identity. Bombay Dost, as we know, was the first gay magazine published in the late 1980s, early 1990s, and Ashok Rao Kavi (founder of Bombay Dost and Humsafar Trust) was a major gay rights activists. I got to know about Bombay Dost at a time when I was exploring my sexuality—it was the mid-90s. I happened to meet him [Kavi] and it was really him who made me comfortable in my sexuality and exposed me to the gay world so I owe a lot to him. Through Bombay Dost I started a network to contact people. There used to be a pen pal section where you could contact likeminded people anywhere in India who had subscribed to the magazine. I started contacting people in Gujarat and that magazine’s pen pal network helped me to establish my own foundation, the Lakshya Trust because I had developed so many contacts by then. The Humsafar Trust was established in 1995. When I met Ashok he gave me the knowledge and information as to why it was important to work for the LGBTQ+ community, especially the gay, MSM (men who have sex with men), and transgender community for HIV/AIDS, which had begun then—Humsafar Trust was the first organisation in India to have a partnership with the government in addressing these issues. That experience helped me to start Lakshya and initially Humsafar was a kind of a parent NGO and helped us in technical issues. Later on, we managed to establish independently the trust and we were the first ones to start in Gujarat. Humsafar and Ashok Rao Kavi helped me to partner with the government of Gujarat and we were the first organisation working for the MSM community and we partnered with the government. It has been 20 years since Lakshya was founded and for the last 20 years the government has been funding and supporting us in the same capacity.
Kunal: It’s really good to hear about the work that has been happening since these organisations first started. Evidently, exposure to LGBTQ+ issues has come a long way since forums like Bombay Dost and Labia with the rise of social media. What do you think about the spread of social media in reaching members of the LGBTQ+ community? Can it be used to spread awareness about mental and sexual health issues?
MSG: Social media is a very good platform for connecting people worldwide. You’re not just restricting yourself to a geographical area within your country. It reaches out to the entire world in a very fast manner and without much cost. You’re just spending on your Internet or data, and not on additional resources. So, [social media] is a very good platform to reach out to a number of people to spread awareness. I think it is thanks to social media we are seeing the positive changes happening today, whether it is Facebook or Instagram or Twitter. It’s been my personal experience also that with the help of social media—of course I belong to the older generation so for me to even adapt to social media was a challenge but I have kind of managed to learn the tricks of how to operate Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. We have to learn, we have to change with time, and not just me but even older people like Ashok Rao Kavi and other senior activists are now using social media and trying to make their connections through this platform. So definitely, I think this platform can be used for many things, for many changes. For example, you and I are also connected on social media. Gone are the days when we had to write letters, god knows when they would reach, which would take one week, sometimes more than that with the postal service. Now you just pick up the phone, you open your Instagram and you have already reached people, you have communicated. Communication has become really fast, which is important: the faster you’re able to communicate, the faster your work can get spread and you can create awareness.
Kunal: Many LGBTQ+ individuals and couples travelling abroad (especially to countries with anti-LGBTQ+ legislation) may find themselves concealing their sexual orientations for ease of movement. With respect to the rise of “Pink Tourism” in recent years, could you tell us about the intersection of the LGBTQ+ community and the tourism industry and its impact on the Indian economy and culture? Also, could you tell us about your work in developing LGBTQ+-friendly avenues of tourism (including at Rajpipla) in India?
MSG: I call it Pink Tourism—I don’t say LGBTQ+ tourism. I have been involved with Pink Tourism as early as 2009. In fact, the first national Pink Tourism conference (in India) was hosted by me in Udaipur, a well-known tourist destination of India. One of my friends is German and he is gay hotelier and has a hotel in Udaipur where he hosted the tourism conference. We got members of representations all over India, trans persons gays, bisexuals–a lot of individuals participated. Even foreigners came and we had a very successful conference, and that led me to an idea: why not try and promote tourism because I am myself an owner of a heritage hotel property in Rajpipla palace—one of the first palaces of Gujarat to have been converted into a hotel . Since then, I have taken initiatives in not just tourism but heritage conservation and on how to get tourists to India. Last year, I got the opportunity to be one of the keynote speakers in the World Tourism Conference held in New York, I was invited there and spoke at the forum. Between 2009-2019 I have seen a significant change, especially now that the law was amended by the Supreme Court in 2013, something people were aware of there. I was the focus of attention—so many people were invited but they were all interested to know what’s happening in India, how the environment is there, if they come will they have a friendly environment, which are the hotels that can offer them a safe space and so on and so forth. One thing I told all the people in the conference was that as far as I now, India has always been safe because I have travelled across the globe and as far as the LGBTQ+ community is concerned, we have had comparatively less violence, less cases of hate crimes, less homophobia seen in public, than other countries. So India has been seen as safe. Now with the amendment in the law, and also very recently the World Bank had done a study in which it had said that the economic development of India will depend on how much it is able to recognise the human rights of its citizens and that’s the message I have been talking about with the government. I was invited by the UN a couple of years ago and was honoured by them and I met a very senior UN official and he told me, “you are doing a good job in India for the LGBTQ+ movement but you need to speak the government’s language—you need to tell the government how they will benefit if they give you rights” and that is precisely what I have been trying to tell the government. India is not a country that is economically well-off. We are also millions of rupees in debt and we need to improve our economic situation and one way we can do this is by opening the doors for Pink Tourism like how Nepal did a few years ago. They invited gay couples to come and get married and their government was giving them marriage certificates and so many people got advantages [in terms of tourism]. Nepal is a poor country and if it can benefit economically then why not India, which has so much more to offer. Even without the government, tourism can develop. I am like a hive that attracts so many honey bees, I have become a tourist destination myself. So many foreigners come just to meet me and imagine how much revenue the government is earning [from these foreigners] without even declaring any tourism policy. So, I have my talks with the government and I’m sure they’re going to liberalise. Of course now with the COVID-19 situation a lot of things have changed, but when things normalise, I’m sure the government is wise and sensible and will listen to our voice because a survey has shown the gay community has a high purchasing power. We like to spend money and don’t have many liabilities compared to heterosexuals. We don’t have families, we don’t have wives, we don’t have children, we don’t have to spend on their admissions, on this and that. Some of us are not in touch with our parents because we have been thrown out of our homes so we don’t even have the liability of taking care of them. So whom do we spend the money on? Many gay couples are willing to come to India to spend money and all that money is going to the government kitty and improve the revenue situation for the foreign exchange. So that’s how we can help.
Kunal: That’s a very interesting way to look at it! Queer A+ Community Campus in Rajpipla, a recent initiative of the Lakshya Trust provides a resource and skill training community centre for the LGBTQ+ community. Having talked about your own family experience when you first came out, how important is building a sense of collectivity for individuals in the LGBTQ+ community, particularly when the family environment is not supportive?
MSG: Now, it has become even more important to have community centres and campuses like the ones I have been developing with the help of the Lakshya Trust. After Section 377 was amended, a lot of us have got confidence and a lot of us have been wanting to come out of the closet because we are no longer seen as criminals in the eyes of the law. A lot of us want to tell our parents, “hey mom, dad, I don’t want to get married, I don’t want to spoil the life of a girl.” Most of the parents we know don’t understand this situation and they force them to get married to a girl, or boy if they are lesbian. Knowing that you’re gay or lesbian, your family can force you to leave your homes and many of us who are homeless suffer from depression, don’t know where to go, and lot of us are contemplating suicide. So these kinds of support systems are very important to build in these times because they will give us a sense of security, that social security, that financial security that there is a place to go in the event of us being disowned or disinherited. This idea came to me from my own story. When you gave my introduction you mentioned when I came out my parents disowned me, disinherited me. I had the strength and power and courage not to bow down to their homophobic pressures and I’ve still managed to survive and live in front of all the hurdles and obstacles I’ve faced but everybody’s not like me. A lot of people will succumb to these pressures and they will fall prey to the marriage pressures of the parents or they will commit suicide so we need to protect these individuals and with that in mind I decided to start this community campus, this home which I’m developing in one of my establishments where the aim is social empowerment and financial empowerment. I wish to train the community in some skills so they can go back and earn their livelihoods in whatever talents they have and live a confident life and this centre is also going to train us on how to deal with the homophobic world because homophobia is not going to go. It may vary from place to place but we need to know how to face the homophobic world and how to live with dignity and respect without being subject to stigma and discrimination. That is what’s important, something the Constitution has also guaranteed us through the Fundamental Rights. Fortunately now the amendment of Section 377 is also guaranteeing us these rights but social issues need to be addressed and for that, this centre is going to train them in how to face social issues.
Kunal: You’ve mentioned inclusion over exclusion as an important guiding principle in your work. Talking about the (then un-passed) Trans Rights Bills, you said, “I don’t blame any political party. It’s not the party but the individuals who are either homophobic or gay-friendly” (Deccan Chronicle, 2017). With the increasing exclusionary trends in our political culture and legal setup, how can the LGBTQ+ community engage with policy-makers to address the issues for which they are fighting?
MSG: One good thing that has happened in India is that the government has also realised that they need to take the [LGBTQ+] community into consideration to make their policies, to decide the issues. One very good thing that has recently come about is that the government has announced a national council for transgenders because transgender rights were given first by the NALSA judgement in 2014 by the Supreme Court and then the Transgender Bill was passed in Parliament a couple of years ago where transgender rights were given. What happens in India is that when bills get passed or acts are made, the dissemination is very slow. The practical implementation of that act or law is a very challenging process because though we have so many states in India, it’s not necessary that each state has the same political party as the centre’s ruling party so there has always been a political clash between the ruling parts and the opposition. This national council for transgenders has representatives in very senior transgender activists all over India including trans men trans women and the hijra population. Lakshmi Narayan Tripathi is one of the community members, for example. So this council is going to see how the rights or the laws which have been guaranteed reaches out to each and every individual of the community in India. The second good thing that happened in India recently is that NACO (National AIDS Control Organisation), which is one of the highest authorities in India working on HIV/AIDS, has declared that they are going to form a core committee comprised of members of the LGBTQ+ community who are involved with HIV/AIDS work because they felt that the community representatives will be in the best position to decide the policies on HIV issues with the Health Department. I’m very fortunate to tell you that one of the co-founders of the Lakshya Trust, Sylvester merchant, has been appointed on the board of the NACO committee along with other senior activists, which is for MSM—very soon they’re going to have a transgender body also. This kind of decision [in partnership] with the government has not come up in one day. We have done several advocacies with the government and that’s why I say I don’t support one party but I support the individual who supports us. And we need to work with each and every political person and try to make them understand why our rights are important, why we need to live with dignity and respect, why we shouldn’t be discriminated against. It has taken us years to talk to several parties. I told you in the beginning that even if we get one ally, one person from any party who understands us and supports us, our work is done. That person will try and educate the other people in that party or rather individuals who are still reluctant [accepting LGBTQ+ rights]. That is the way to go about our advocacy, which is going to be continuous effort—it’s not going to finish. But we definitely need to continue [spreading] education and awareness. Only then can we expect change.
Kunal: The Pride parade, obviously emblematic of the kind of collective solidarity built by the LGBTQ+ community, is likely to be celebrated online this year in India. Having marched in Pride Parades all around the world, what has Pride meant for you? Can the universal sense of belonging provided by this Queer Pride Parade movement have an equally powerful effect as local initiatives?
MSG: According to me, the meaning of Pride itself is to be proud—you’re proud to be yourself, which is very important. You need to be yourself, you cannot be a hypocrite, hypocrisy is not going to survive for long. You need to be true to yourself and true to others. That is the best way to live whether you’re straight, gay, bi, or whatever. So that’s Pride to me. Pride means the freedom to express yourself, to demonstrate yourself, to tell the world that “yes we exist, and we need to be treated with respect and dignity”. You’re right, I have been to several Pride parades all over the world: America, Brazil, Europe, Australia, Mauritius. So many countries, I thin I’ve covered almost all the Pride parades in the world! Let me tell you something that shocks a lot of people. India has been the safest country for Pride parades. I have never seen a single incident of violence, backlash, or hate crime, or any protest happening in a single Pride parade in India. In India, I have participated in many major cities of India like Chennai, Bangalore, Bombay, Delhi, Gujarat, Nagpur, and Poona. Once, I remember I was in Delhi in 2009 I think and the Delhi High Court judgement was given in our favour. There was one person from a political party that threatened that they would not allow Delhi Pride to happen. We said, “ok fine, we have got out police permissions and we’ll see what happens”. Believe me, that guy who wanted to protest didn’t even turn up. More than that, after the pride parade got over, I was invited on television—NDTV, I think—to talk about the Pride parade and that political person was also invited to talk about why he wanted to protest: he never answered the call! I have seen Pride in India as so well organised, the police have been the most cooperative. Bombay pride is the largest in India—you’ll find 15,000 of us on the road. I have never seen such cooperative police, police holding rainbow flags and marching with us. What more can you want to have happen? That was one of the best pride parades I’ve seen.
When I was in the Los Angeles Pride parade, there was a bomb found on the road. I had to be given extra security, told by organisers, “your highness, if you don’t wish to participate please don’t because we won’t be able to protect you”. This was in L.A. four years ago, the same year when the Orlando shooting happened. The armed terrorist was eventually caught. When I participated in San Francisco, there were protestors, Christian church missionaries shouting slogans and ridiculing the people who were marching—there was a lot of bullying happening. Sweden is supposed to be the first country in the world to have liberalised LGBTQ+ rights and I was there to open the Pride parade in Stockholm. Just one night before the parade, there was violence, hate crimes, and protest—they even thought about cancelling the parade. Mauritius was one of the worst experiences I had: I was almost assassinated. I mean can you imagine that? I was in an open jeep and the police had to be called. So you see, I can give you so many examples of violence that I myself have experienced in foreign countries but India has been the safest. I haven’t seen any violence. On the contrary, I have been to Nagpur Pride on 2 occasions, both times the BJP MLA himself attended with a pride flag. Now tell me, where is the protest? We say there is homophobia in India but compared to the rest of the world, we are much safer because I think we have something in our switch that tells us that humanity does exist.
Kunal: To conclude, how do you envision the future of LGBTQ+ rights in India, both in our legal system and societal framework? Following the decriminalisation of homosexuality with the 2018 Supreme Court decision, what challenges lie ahead for the LGBTQ+ community? How can these legal reforms be implemented in society in a way that they are accepted as well as able to effect a change in societal attitudes?
MSG: We have a big challenge ahead. Of course, we are very fortunate that we have a strong legal foundation, which has given us all those rights the Constitution has guaranteed, which have been confirmed by amendment of Section 377. This was a very good thing that happened in India, which I would not have imagined would have happened in my lifetime. Now the bigger challenge is how to get about social acceptance and social liberation. Legal recognition is strong but social recognition is the challenge. And that’s what a lot of other activists and I are doing and I’m coming again to the same point: education and awareness. I see a bright future in India because the youth are very much interested in our issues, to know more about us. I have received a number of invitations not just from colleges and universities but schools have been inviting me, too. I’m being interviewed by young children—they are the ones who are taking an interest. And the parents know their children are involved in these issues. That is something that I am really excited about and we all know that the youth in India is the largest in the world: the youth is the future of our country, of any society and of any culture and if they are informed, if they are well educated and made aware of what our issues are, then they will be much more aware as citizens of our country. One of these students could be a future President, Prime Minister, lawyer, Chief Justice, anything. So if they are more aware of our issues then definitely I see a very bright future in India and thus I take these opportunities to go to any institutions. I have done 13 Ted Talks in India, each of which is on LGBTQ+ issues. Even schools are calling me for Ted Talks on LGBTQ+ issues. So, you see that change is happening. The student initiative, it is a youth driven initiative that is going to lead us to positive change not just on LGBTQ+ but many other issues. If the youth is interested, we can definitely make this society, this world a happier place to live.
Kunal: On that note we’ll end today’s interview and that’s a very important point. It needs to go beyond the community itself, support has to come not just within but outside, especially if the number of allies keeps increasing. As you just mentioned, you didn’t expect this to happen in your lifetime. So many achievements that need to happen will happen if the number of allies keeps increasing.
Thank you so very much for doing this interview! I have learned so many new things in the course of this interview.
Disclaimer: This interview has been edited for clarity.
Kunal is a Delhi based lawyer & policy analyst and has been working in the social sector since the last seven years. He is the Founder of ITISARAS and currently presides as the Chairman of the Governing Body of the organisation.